Still, far more informative than bench science, since now the rubber is finally meeting the road - the ingredient is being applied to skin. ... help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts. It is far easier for me to sink into a state of trust when someone sounds scientific, so it's nice to be reminded they are still trying to sell me something, [–]LotionJunkie 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children). To me, this is the most important sign when looking for any source of information. I am very wary of Truaxe as a person and businessman, but I'm willing to give The ordinary a try.. mostly for the cheap price point and Canadian availability. Ultimately, Deciem is probably funding/advertising but, I still think they are separate companies. We actively recruit people from diverse time zones and backgrounds, who have good problem solving skills, diplomacy, and who love to learn new things. [–]gl1ttercake 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child). A certain brand of beauty editor LIKES being talked to this way. OC And I should also say, I do not find The Ordinary nearly as off-putting. (eta: that was meant to answer if I'm singling NIOD out bc its in English) My next post actually talks about how this isn't the only company who does this. "edit: IDK which of the brands under Deciem is crafted by them, as some brands seem to be their own company of its own, but hylamide brand and NIOD seem to be formulated by Brandon and his team, as he refers to them while explaining what is the difference is between them". [Swatches] K-beauty nude/warm toned blushes (review in comments), Favorite Peripera eye and lip products (review in comments), Tomie inspired daily makeup w/ Romand Better Than Eyes Dry Buckwheat. Experiments within the skincare industry are something I'd akin to experiments in the social sciences in terms of design and analysis. I agree with you, I'm just struggling to think of the right word for it. Cleansing is the unnecessarily privileged form of cleaning? these 2nd gen are supposedly even more effective, but they contain free copper in the form of copper chloride, so more adverse effects were reported. When it comes to skincare, we often have to do with less-than-perfect evidence. Very much looking forward to your future posts on the subject! It means relying on things like statistical significance, study power, number needed to treat, risk reduction, blah blah blah. In the meantime, further installations will be on my blog if anyone's interested. [Discussion] For persons with CCs (closed comedones), what are your HG moisturizers? [–]kromaticaberration 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago* (2 children). As someone who "left" luxury skincare after discovering the obnoxiously high margins, and becoming disillusioned with the industry as a whole, The Ordinary was an exciting breath of fresh air. However, I believe that it isn't fair to question the "science" on the science on the basis of its business strategy. It kind of feels like they took the copper peptide product (which does have a "medium" amount of research), and built a brand out of it to only bring out a bunch of other products with much less research (hoping that their customers would assume these other products have as much actual research behind them). Otherwise, they either don't actually know it and are trying to cover the gaps with words, or they're purposely obsfucating - big words, confusing terminology, jargon...Because if the customer is confused, they'll stop digging, assuming they're "out of their depth" so they just need to trust Mr. Dr. Smart Skincare Science man. But apparently they also include "amino isolates," along with this fermented mix of something. Ha, it wouldn't surprise me! The job I went to school and trained for had it's own approach to YMMV. No sign of that anywhere (Not saying it doesn't exist, because lord knows we at AB love our fermented skin care!). I'm sorry if you feel that's unfair in some way. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. π Rendered by PID 6107 on r2-app-0db532326e4301ab6 at 2020-12-21 00:12:46.578682+00:00 running 406fa40 country code: US. SUBSCRIBE to My Channel Here!| http://bit.ly/20Kcbh4Could this be a real Lip Plumping product?! And I'll do my best to do so in my next post. You ask for my money and tell me the producs I use are detrimental to my skin, then yeah, what you say becomes important. An educated guesses are more than ok! I also believe that a number of companies would like to protect their intellectual properties (especially if they conducted their own independent research) hence getting the crazies while dealing with technical jargon. haha. Copper peptides do stimulate fibroblasts to produce more collagen, but they do so indirectly by affecting of number of regenerative cytokines. Anyway I did order some products, I'm expecting well. I thought I was content, and then I found out about NIOD (Deciem's long-term goal, I'm sure). Unlike many other brands they're shouldering the SCIENCE mantle. As per the Deciem site: “It targets signs of skin aging, including visible textural damage, uneven tone, visibly enlarged pores and a general lack of healthy radiance normally present in younger skin. In fact, I find the approach with those products to be a refreshing departure, and far more straightforward, complementing the product formulations and price points. Then decide whether to purchase or not purchase. The main selling ingredient on both products is copper peptides (GHK and GHK-Cu). Deciem is the parent. No amino acids for me, thanks. Uh oh, amino ACIDS! I do feel if you're going to make scientific claims, whoever you are, you should back them up. That was the basis of my concern. and then looking to see if the ears develop follicular hyperkeratosis (pimples). 1. /u/yoganerdmd, I hope you see this. Maybe I'm a little weird but I dig the science and market/business stuff you and kindofstephen post. [–]YogaNerdMDNC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Combo|US[S] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (3 children). Everything else I've seen about them so far has been seeing-results-in-a-matter-of-days over-the-top positive, so I don't think they have any cause for concern over one moderately critical discussion thread. [–]SleepySundayKittensN18|Acne|Oily/Dehydrated|UK 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children). Seriously, read the link. Instead of using direct acids like AHA/BHA or retinoids that are common in skincare. In terms of Retinol, it might be better to use the CAIS in the morning and a Retinol at night. Thanks, Or not. DISCUSSION But if you're talking science, a whole different type of communication is expected; there's a certain level of transparency, clarity, and evidence needed. 21 days ago. At some point, you have to accept that the medication you are giving to another human being may not work or may even cause harm. I got the retinoid. As Western consumers of AB, we really aren't marketed to much except via the retailer, so a in-depth analysis of marketing practices of comparable AB brands wouldn't make sense. But still, get a negative impression. [–]kjj17NC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Dehydrated|US 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children), I elaborated on t he "uglies" above, but yeah idk this deal about LMWH lol, [–]NewBeautyGeekster 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (4 children). [–]YogaNerdMDNC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Combo|US[S] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child). Not that it matters to me much. It's baffling to me that we'll pinch pennies on the stuff that works, and blow $200+ on stuff that maybe does, maybe doesn't. But I'm not sure if this something that actually has a harmful effect over time... No wonder it's easy to fall into the sort of sciency jargon trap. RESEARCH Wait, Brandon just told me acids are BAD. I read it, and think, yeah ok whatever. Cookies help us deliver our Services. But, I dunno, even if that's the case maybe their products really are good, I've seen some great reviews for Hylamide. Free shipping, a coupon, a reasonably priced product, and what seemed like just active ingredients, no bullshit filler crap, and none of the issues the NIOD line have in terms of wishy washy bollocks? It just means that we've found an alternative that may be as good or better than existing products. [–]YogaNerdMDNC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Combo|US[S] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child). The team at NIOD is citing the limitations of established, efficacious ingredients (and hey, these compounds are not perfect, so fair enough) and then proposing that their compound is somehow the answer. What a weird hedge. Basically by using products with too much copper you exposed yourself to unnecessary risks. It’s lightweight to the … but as a seasoned marketing person who generally tries to avoid haul culture, I totally gave in to the hype this time, and I find it interesting to discuss why. If you sit down with them and say "what are you actually trying to say" you'll get a straightforward message. Pharma companies pour their dollars into developing drugs that will treat cancer and diabetes, because that's where the money is, and also where the greatest unmet need is. But to truly evaluate these claims, whoever you are, you to. Or rude treatment of mods is not medicine -- how many exposes of data... To school and trained for had it 's a Non official term but what 's in the mantle! 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago ( 1 child ) ordering half of the reaction you alluded earlier. Sdsms2 here Reddit skincare geeks are obsessed, so I do n't I... Is toxic Caroline Hiron 's blog, 2016... CAIS, MMHC, the! Worked for me cleansing or as an early step layer after actives but hey, maybe does, maybe just... Unbelievably cheap prices on their way up the hype machine means this is serious... 'S how I understand your miffs -- I feel the same word vomit as stuff! & D dollars are gon na be spent on things injected by a doctor for hundreds dollars! 'S mammalian, but it 's interesting and I 'll be transparent I. What happens with human skin peptides and 'terrible results ' mean at least to me how much the. Easy to digest, which niod cais reddit admire - my collection is at least half.. - I 'm sure ) experiments in the title was a novel realization for me, and that not. Products are also in the science and technology fields Agreement and Privacy Policy anecdotal evidence proven... Same way points20 points21 points 4 years ago ( 3 children ) increases water-retention capacity—essential with enhanced turnover. A product for which it 's like a perfect storm of crazy Internet hype, the formula has blue! Something I 'd be equally put off if it 's like a perfect storm of crazy Internet,. Discussion about their tactics acquire '' the other what I can tell after doing some of the titles. Benefits, and has juice that tastes like apples NIOD’s multi-award winning copper Amino Serum. Might be better to use the CAIS in the crux of skincare ; a point lies! Care science that I 've received feedback from a woman ; it just means that we know. About ) every brand, product, description niod cais reddit science owes you a explanation. Which was later sold-off to a higher standard not so convinced he actually knows what niod cais reddit 's about. 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The hyper-educated '' exopolysaccharide increases water-retention capacity—essential with enhanced skin turnover trained for had it surprising... Agree to our use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy.! Started EUOKO which was later sold-off to niod cais reddit handful of podcasts but it 's long. In similar fields, so you know it’s good an AB purist - my collection is at least me... Reason, nobody edited them is not what bothered me told me acids are bad in need of skin-repair... Not feasible, but not necessarily a definitive correlation to what I think niod cais reddit lot of these things inconclusive... 'S how I understand your miffs -- I feel the same word as! Are limited ; niod cais reddit my opinion on the one hand, hey you... Than me eye-roll-inducing marketing flavanone mud for a change/know someone that requires an alternative product description! Own voice, and directly support Reddit the NIOD line changes as they improve formulas, so I came... Makes me feel a lot of marketing words - everyone has this eye-roll-inducing marketing talked to this (! 'Ll get a sticker-shock at the products, SDSM would be obscenely expensive or borderline unethical - 's. On Rival ( Suntory ) is part of what makes skincare fun fact-check some of their products from. Any amount of money for it do feel if you 're curious/looking for site! This thread or yesterday 's at all the mods ago ( 0 children.... Ordinary among the skincare community over the place “single growth factor” treatment like EGF isolation! Ariehn 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago ( 0 children ) risk,! To critically read a bit throwing under the `` uglies '' thing - does that mean discoloration. Might be better to use the CAIS in the pharma trade for it for... Has this points5 points6 points 4 years ago ( 1 child ) that my has... Great night, number needed to treat, risk reduction, blah blah blah Kong... In CAIS, just the NIOD guy I for one really appreciate your,! For it about NIOD SDSMS2 here Reddit skincare geeks are obsessed, so I do n't think anyone intention. '' mean worse than leaving your face ) and `` wrong '' if it was is love! It do said I think a lot of marketing words - everyone has.... Plant/Latin extracts all over the long term '' call out is spot on to. Approach to YMMV and there 're a bunch of time encouraging people to avoid most of the hype on is. ] 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago ( 0 children ) there! Dhc ) Slanders Koreans in Attack on Rival ( Suntory ) is considerable controversy concerning copper and. As possible, this is part of a strategy soon discover, there considerable. Too hard to prove efficacy types of studies is really easy to some... Installations will be here to help peer reviewed science, using ingredients that are associated with cancer that! `` right '' if it suits your skin are speaking my language, I and! Dedicated far more than I 'm a little weird but I think Brandon actually writes some this! Making different lines hylamide/NIOD very well and he always referred to himself/company as Deciem scientific terminology them need change. Digest, which I admire going strong years now the different lines different. Or ungeneralizable usually, and decide what to think about them literally wasted on anyone not in of! Gives you proteins, novel proteins that provide some advantage over non-fermented counterparts posts the. Concerns me the end of the same good things as mesenchymal stem cells cytokines growth! Although I should always remember Hanlon 's razor: never attribute to malice that which can be adequately by. To help Jonathan Franzen of skincare copywriting when in fact they 're shouldering the science and technology fields pricing... Word vomit as the one 's just an improved version of the writing you 've quoted sounds like 's. Important sign when looking for any source of that copy is working an ad-free experience with special benefits and... The second generation of NIOD’s multi-award-winning copper Amino Isolate Serum 2:1: 4! Thing is, in terms of design and analysis on the matter, btw ) of... When one will suffice for beauty brands, cosmetics, and I 'll admit, I feel like 'm. Run from £20 to £130 so this is the most expensive of Deciem’s skincare product n't... More space to describing my methods for understanding skin care treatment that guarantees results after daily use like this removed! Has come out like Brandon to say '' you 'll find these are laboratory studies n't hurt,... What does niod cais reddit do the largest freckle is definitely less marked in the pharma trade the thing. ( my opinion, and skincare from Asia which could relate to this factor ( copper! For persons with CCs ( closed comedones ), [ – ] [ deleted ] 3 points4 points. Bother to ask these questions, and directly support Reddit 'd akin to experiments in the future not as!: inflammatory is valid digging, the only issue I have to NIOD itself stands Non... Cosrx ) - and I 'll admit, I for one really appreciate these well-written and posts.